Ever wondered what do to inbetween the lines, gambits, and cocky and funny? Here ya go.
This is reprint of the mASF post. Awesome stuff from Tyler Durden. To me, this is a very important post.
Social Intelligence. Having struggled so hard to learn it, I have so much to say on this topic. In this post I'd like to specifically discuss social vibing and insecurity (a very focused, but important peice of the puzzle).
There are many subcommunications that are being telegraphed at all times in any interaction. Both verbal and non-verbal.
Social interactions have features and customs that I suppose are designed to make them pleasant.
As social animals, we have the attribute of actually enjoying socializing just for the sake of socializing.
We socially VIBE.
People who break the vibe are considered socially unintelligent, and despite being perhaps very good/worthwhile people, they will come across poorly.
Most people, once you get to know them, are really worthwhile. I've rarely met someone, who when put in a position where I was by circumstance made to get to know them, that I didn't come to like.
So what's the difference between someone who is COOL and someone who is UNCOOL?
The way that they COME ACROSS. Their level of social intelligence. Their ability to CONVEY it. TELEGRAPH it. SUBCOMMUNICATE it.
Understanding how to socially vibe telegraphs that you are secure with yourself. Failing to understand telegraphs insecurity.
Much of this post assumes that early game is now past, and you are in comfort building (if you use my PU model, if you are using
Juggler's, for example, then this would apply from the very start because he is full rapport).
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LAUGHING AS VIBING:
Laughter is not only a stress relief mechanism. It's actualy a social mechanism.
Laughter basically shows that your social group is vibing well. Monkeys, while they can't talk like we can, still laugh when they are in rapport with each other.
Think to when you were telling a joke, and the group vibe was just so TIGHT. The people were starting to laugh before you'd even delivered the punch line. Maybe you said "I haven't even told the joke yet, and you guys are laughing". And they can't figure out why, and they laugh even more as you say this.
Also, think of how when you use cocky tactics, girls laugh/giggle. This is a sign that they are wanting to vibe with you.
The movie "Goodfellas", in the scene where Joe Pesci is telling jokes at the restaurant table, and everyone is laughing harder and harder. Ray Liotta can't stop laughing. It's not just the humour. It's the VIBE.
People who are not socially intelligent will LAUGH AT THEIR OWN JOKES. They laugh prior to the group starting to laugh.
Notice next time that someone laughs at their own joke first. Were you JUST ABOUT to laugh, but then didn't when they did first?
They were attempting to FILL IN THE RAPPORT GAP.
When the boss of an office tells a joke, everyone laughs. When the beta male tells it, he worries that nobody will, and laughs at his own joke to fill in the so-called rapport gap.
Concentrate on VIBING, and don't try to artificially push rapport.
Better, is to WAIT until the group laughs, and THEN laugh with them.
This gap is also seen when people say "right" after all of their sentences. They are trying to FILL IN the "right" that the other person SHOULD have said themself, IF THEY HAD been socially vibing properly.
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RHETORICAL SEQUENCING:
People, when talking, use weird (when you think about it) rhetorical sequencing. Here is an example:
A guy is excited that he got a cheap deal on a coat.
GOOD VIBING:
GUY: You'll never guess how much I got this coat for.
FRIEND: Wow.. Umm, 200$.
GUY: No man. 45$
FRIEND: Wow.. Nice man.
BAD VIBING:
GUY: You'll never guess how much I got this coat for.
FRIEND: Oh you got a deal. I guess 30$ then.
GUY: Umm, actually 45$
FRIEND: Oh.. well that's not bad.
Notice that the friend TELEGRAPHED SUBCOMMUNICATIONS of INSECURITY.
His thought process was: "I'll show GUY that I'm smart. I'm clever enough to pickup on the fact that if he said "You'll never guess what I paid", that he got a deal. Then I'll have shown him that I passed his test."
His INSECURITY caused him to miss out on the social vibing, which was intended to build excitement and wasn't a test at all.
The secure guy, although realizing that the coat was really cheap, would still guess something lower end, but still high enough that if the guy's deal wasn't as great as he thought, he'll still feel good. After all, its bought, so why worry about that stuff (UNLESS you seriously could hookup a massively cheaper deal and return the coat (which the socially intelligent guy would ascertain before even suggesting it), in which case the happiness derived from that would outweigh actually telling the guy that he didn't get the best deal).
ANOTHER EXAMPLE:
GOOD VIBING:
HB: I just got this crazy shirt. Look at it.
PUA: Wow.. Cute!
BAD VIBING:
HB: I jsut got tihs crazy shirt. Look at it.
PUA: Cool.. Hey you know in L.A. that shirt would be nothing. I should bring you there sometime.
ANOTHER EXAMPLE:
GOOD VIBING:
(Friend1 drives to Toronto for the first time with Friend2)
FRIEND1: Wow man, look at that building.. That rocks..
FRIEND2: Whoa.. That's pretty big dude.
BAD VIBING:
FRIEND1: Wow man, look at that building.. That rocks..
FRIEND2: Dude, that's cool.. But man, you should see NYC. Man, NYC KILLS this place.
(JLAIX: If you're reading this, who does this remind you of? HINT: His first name is *LERON*).
Again, with these examples, the person who is not vibing right does not get something: The purpose of the initial comment was NOT to ACTUALLY debate it. It was to SOCIALLY VIBE. The content was not the REAL communication. It was a surface for SUBCOMMUNICATION, which INTENDED to say "Let's have a nice time, and have rapport with eachother and relax."
The insecure and socially unintelligent person is taking the sentences of the first person, and FIELDING them as OPPORTUNITIES TO QUALIFY HIMSELF.
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HEIRARCHIES - ROLE IN SOCIAL INTERACTION:
We all get our moment in the sun at some point.
You'll notice, that when you are holding court, that sometimes people will be insecure with that.
The secure guy will recognize when its someone's turn to hold court, and not fight it.
A person who is secure will talk to ADD EMPHASIS to a point. He will not DISPUTE a point while someone is holding court. He knows that he'll have his chance LATER, and that right now someone is trying to get a point across.
Guys who are insecure will constantly dispute points whenever they see the opening. They view is at an opportunity to demonstrate their value.
They CANNOT RESIST the temptation.
For an example that everyone reading this can recoginze, look to this chatboard. Something tight will get posted. Insecure posters will nightpick semantics. Like "While this is important, its maybe an 8 out of 10 level importance. Not a 10 like you said." The secure poster, if he finds the level of emphasis on a level where its honestly misinformative, might post "I think that x,y,z are really good, man. I think that you might consider less emphasis on it though, because a,b,c are important as well. Good post though man, I like x,y,z"
ANOTHER feature you'll see on this board, and that is in the same vein, are THROWING LITTLE NEGS or TRYING TO COME OFF AUTHORITATIVE WHEN ITS NOT YOUR PLACE.
For example, you'll see guys trying to get rapport with someone they don't know by throwing little negs.
GOOD VIBING:
*OLD* FRIEND 1: Hey Stevo, you fucking bastard.. C'mere gimme a hug
BAD VIBING:
*NEW* ACQUAINTANCE: C'mere you fucker, help me out.
The second is BAD vibing, because he is trying to FORCE rapport with subcommunication that is only appropriate of old friends.
Similarly, you'll see guys who try to come off authoritative. You'll see it on the board, where a guy will post something quality, and someone who doesn't like him will post "That's very quality material. Good that you posted something of quality". It's like he's trying to come off authoritative. Like he realizes that he's negged on the guy on the chatboard, and he feels insecure that the guy he negged produced something worthwhile. So he has to come in and be all authoritative, like "I can show everyone that I recognize a good post". Guys in real life will see someone who they publically disliked starting to improve himself, and say things like "Good that you're improving. KEEP IT UP." By this, they are trying to CONTROL what is happening. They are trying to say "Improve, because *I*, the AUTHORITY, approved."
More on this... If you've ever ever ran a very good presentation at work or school, and you see an insecure person come up to you and criticize.
They don't realize its YOUR TURN TO HOLD COURT. Their turn is LATER.
So they throw little negs at you. Like they always have to offer advice on how you could have improved it. They can't just say "Good job man".
Or they have to nit-pick subtleties. Like they can't say "That was awesome". They have to first go over their advise on where you fucked up.
For a real life example that most guys on this board can recognize, when you meet up with another guy from the scene through PAIR, if he's insecure he'll do the following:
1- Talk about game non-stop, rather than PLAY.
2- Watch you do a set, and CRITICIZE on what could be improved, rather than encourage.
3- You tell him about something that happened, and he gives you ADVICE, rather than just listening.
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SOCIAL INTERACTION WITH "VIBING" AS THE PRESUPPOSITION, NOT "DISCUSSING AN ISSUE"
When socializing, a good vibe will be set when the reason for being there is to enjoy eachother's company.
However, sometimes a bad vibe can be set when the presupposition is that you're there for a SPECIFIC PURPOSE.
Of course, there is nothing wrong with purpose. It has a place, and more of my daily interactions have a purpose than those that are to socially vibe.
However, recognizing that tagging a set purpose to an interaction will often stop a nice vibe from occuring, will help with a pickup.
Insecure people will often LATCH onto a purpose for the conversation, as a way of maintaining it.
Then they'll leave on a "high note" once that purpose is exhausted.
This is a MAJOR cause of flaking. You maintained a conversation with a girl, but the presupposition was that you were discussing an issue. You left on the high note, but didn't realize that you were actually REINFORCING to the girl that you are not socially compatible.
When going to meet up with you again, she'll think "Well, we really have nothing more to talk about though. I don't want to have nothing to talk about, because that would feel unfortable"
As guys, we don't care. We might feel nervous that we'll have nothing to talk about, but we want sex. But girls, if the feel uncomfortable, they won't show up. That's one reason why guys who smoke pot get laid alot. Girls rarely flake on them, because they have that social presupposition that will give comfort. For the rest of us who don't smoke, we use SOCIAL VIBING rather than FORCED social interaction, to maintain comfort.
Clinging too strenously to a particular topic can come across insecure. When you say to a friend "Let's go have a beer", the subtext is "Let's go socially vibe". You don't go discuss an issue, and say "Let's reconvene later". You go and you chill. You have a FRIENDSHIP. Non-party-chicks rarely flake on guys they have both attraction AND friendship with. But they do flake on guys who attract them, tongue them down, and say "Give me your #."
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PRACTICAL FEMALE INTERACTION:
In summary, how does this apply in practical terms?
Most of it comes in, during comfort building phase. Or if you use a different PU model than I do, then its when you're getting to know the girl either way.
1) Don't crack jokes to the girl, and laugh at them before she does. Wait. You'll notice that it sometimes takes even 10-15 seconds for a joke to process. But it DOES. I usually bust on her for it "Oh, slow processing time.. That's OK, you're my little sister.. I didn't adopt you for your brains"
Also, don't say "right" after everything. It can come across beta. Right?
2) When a girl is trying to impress you, RECOGNIZE it as her QUALIFYING herself. If you reject it, you'll come across insecure, or socially unaware.
This is DIFFERENT than the C&F stuff early, where you break rapport on purpose. In fact, much like how the "25 Points to not trying too hard" assumed that you were in EARLY GAME, this post to some extent at least assumes you are PAST early game.
SHARE her excitement by recognizing rhetorical social sequencing.
3) Recognize when its your turn to talk, and when somebody else is being focused on.
MUCH MUCH of the mid/later game is the chick qualifying herself to you.
Because our pickup model encorporates alot of not trying, you'll notice your best pickups (with NON-party-chicks at least) are with the ones who at some point EARN your attention.
They perceive that they've WON your interest, and plan to COLLECT THE PRIZE (your dick in their mouth).
4) If a girl tells you about a problem, just LISTEN and change her emotion. Say "Ouch, that's sounds tough.. But hey, you're a powerpuff girl, and you know you're to fiesty to let this stop you.. Let's check out x,y,z"
Definetely don't offer advice. If she wants advice, she'll say "WHAT SHOULD I DO?" Unless someone asks me what to do, I rarely offer advice. OR, I say "You know i have experience with this, so maybe later you can ask me about it."
5) Focus on SOCIALLY VIBING and don't CLING TO TOPICS. This will prevent flaking, and make her feel comfortable around you.
Don't leave on a high note. THERE IS NO HIGHNOTE. There is only vibing and flipping the switches that she needs to have switched in order to fuck you.
OK retards, that's it. Cool post, RIGHT? HAHAHAHHAHAA..
-TD
SOCIAL INTERACTION WITH "VIBING" AS THE PRESUPPOSITION, NOT "DISCUSSING AN ISSUE"
Key to all geekiness ... :)
haa, I like that analysis - I agree completely.
It's true, geeks need a presupposition to hang out. Interesting. I think I'm a natural geek, for sure.
Thanks for all the great feedback. I thought the guys' answers to the questions that were given were really bang on, and covered my bases.
I suppose this sort of approach is the "external" way of coming at the problem.
The other way of course would be the "internal" way, which would mean improving your inner game so that you're not needy and you're not insecure.
I think that inner approach is great and has alot of value.
At the same time, the externally focused approach is what solved my internal issues, because once I figured out the points of how internally-balanced people acted, I got laid and then started to feel better internally.
Like one thing I like to do with newbs is tell the girls from the set I'm in that they have to tongue him down and grab his dick, or I'll leave and blow them off. Or I'll tell a girl from a 2set that if her friend isn't warm to my friend, I'll leave because he's bored. The girls do this, and then the newb walks around strutting like he's the man for the rest of the night. Then he PU's another separate chick on his own, gets MOMENTUM, and it snowballs. These are extreme cases of the externally focused approach, but just focusing on the mannerisms of successful guys can do the same.
At the same time, for alot of guys they really need internal work. Like no success will fix them internally. So I think that both approaches are great.
I know Twentysix is now running great game, and he did both externally focused stuff (going out 4 nights a week), as well as seeing a psychologist.
Tyler Durden
"The seminars are in a classroom setting," Charisma Sciences (Charisma Arts) business manager John Henson said. "While in workshops, guys go out with Wayne and approach women, and afterwards Wayne critiques them. We offer workshops, seminars, and even boot camp. Most guys don't come here wanting a girlfriend, they just want to have the ability to get a girlfriend if they wanted to. You want to be in a relationship because you want to be in it, not because you need to be in it."